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Idle talk

Wed Jan 2, 2008 Miss Vicky 

Today, as Miss Vicky returned from dropping WeeG off at Kitchicoo, she noticed a large truck (illegally) parked across the street, where presumably it had dropped off some Bobcats that were engaged in snow removal. It sat empty, idling away. And sat there. And sat there.

Clearly it's going to take a while for folks to cotton on to the city's anti-idling bylaw, it being brand spanking new and all. But it seemed appropriate, before Miss Vicky starts calling bylaw on annoying polluters, to check into the various exceptions to the rule. And there are quite a few of them:

(a) vehicles assisting in an emergency activity;
(b) mobile workshops while they are in the course of being used for their basic function;
(c) vehicles where idling is required to repair the vehicle or prepare it for service;
(d) armoured vehicles where a person remains inside the vehicle while guarding the contents of the vehicle or while the vehicle is being loaded or unloaded;
(e) vehicles required to remain motionless because of any emergency, traffic, weather condition or mechanical difficulty over which the person driving the vehicle has no control;
(f) vehicles engaged in a parade or race or any other event authorized by Council;
(g) private transit vehicles while passengers are embarking or disembarking en route or in terminals;
(h) vehicles transporting a person where a medical doctor certifies in writing that for medical reasons a person in the vehicle requires that temperature or humidity be maintained within a certain range;
(i) occupied vehicles when the temperature outside the vehicle is greater than twenty-seven degrees Celsius (27C) including the humidex calculation or less than five degrees Celsius (5C) including the windchill value as determined by the Environment Canada temperature readings;
(j) vehicles engaged in providing City services which vehicles shall be subject to the Citys Vehicle and Equipment Idling Policy dated June, 2002, Number FS01;
(k) vehicles engaged in a normal farm practice; or
(l) vehicles, including hybrid vehicles, that eliminate the emission of green house gases and criteria air contaminants during the idling phase of operation.

Now, my truck-driving friend wouldn't fit any of these categories. Of course, I'm not entirely sure what would happen had I called by-law - would they get there in time, do the three minutes start once by-law arrives, do they get a warning first... so many questions. As with any by-law, the devil is in the details... and the enforcement. I am waiting with bated breath (and my ventolin handy) to see if this one actually makes a difference.

Some people were moved to reply

amckay Jan 2, 2008 08:24 PM said:

Interesting ... new, eh? I guess the lady was lying to me 2 or 3 years ago when I was idling in front of the bagel shop early one morning. She came up and said she was off-duty bylaw and that were she on duty I'd be ticketed for idling. I see her around the 'hood all the time - but I don't think ever in uniform.

When I was living in Germany 15 years ago it was common for people to even turn off their engine when stopped at a stoplight.

Richgold Jan 3, 2008 08:00 PM said:

Bah. This is just another bylaw that they're not going to enforce.

(We've got parking issues AND idling issues in front of the two day cares run in my neighborhood.) Everyday, particularly between 7:30 and 9:30, there is usually at least one car, if not two or three that is parked on the wrong side of the road AND idling. When we call bylaw, they usually do a drive by around noon, when the street is dead.

JMG Jan 4, 2008 10:41 AM said:

New Yorker The Talk Of The Town: Idle Hands

[Edited By JMG Jan 04, 2008 10:43 AM]

JMG Jan 4, 2008 01:55 PM said:

Maybe, Richgold, it's really the $64,000 question. How will the idling bylaw be enforced? Will it be in fact the duty of the officer to take action independently--or only to respond when someone files a complaint?

If it's anything the way bylaw officers ignore cars parked illegally, why should they go after idling cars? Try to turn onto Clarendon from Wellington when someone has chosen to park in what's a clearly marked no parking zone. Yet how often do you see tickets being handed out where obviously there should be enforcement?

Or you are right when you say, this is just another bylaw that they're not going to enforce.

[Edited By JMG Jan 04, 2008 01:57 PM]

Miss Vicky Jan 4, 2008 07:27 PM said:

betcha it'll get even worse when they install parking meters on Wellington West!

Maybe we need a vigilante by-law enforcement squad... print up some fake tix to hand out

The Webgeek Jan 4, 2008 07:35 PM said:

Maybe we need a vigilante by-law enforcement squad... print up some fake tix to hand out

I'm not entirely sure, but I think I just heard amckay cackle with glee...

amckay Jan 4, 2008 08:46 PM said:

Yes you did! In fact, I'm pretty sure I already consider myself the vigilante by-law squad :-) But as already stated, I've never had a problem. I call them, they come. Works every time. Though they don't always make it in time to catch the culprit. I honestly think some of the complainers just aren't calling - based solely on my near 100% success rate.

I've also done things like "if you go between time X and time Y, you'll get them". And so they come between those times. Believe me - as I'm sure any regular readers will know - I'm the first guy to crap all over wasteful and inefficient government workers. But best I can tell the by-law folks are earning their pay in spades!

Richgold Jan 5, 2008 01:15 PM said:

re: honestly think some of the complainers just aren't calling

HA! I complain. I suggest times. (Bylaw eventually does come by, but about two hours later when traffic is less of an issue.)

Hey, I even bought a *cell phone* to be able to call about by-law infractions in a no dog park behind the community centre! (They've come ONCE!)

In long talks with the bylaw officer in charge, I've been told that if they knew the address of the owner who is causing the infraction then they'd pay 'em a visit. (I've thought about it, but I've also thought that would make a me a stalker.)

Hey amckay, would you like to come, with lawn chair in hand, to my corner? I could use your 100% success rate.

amckay Jan 5, 2008 05:33 PM said:

If you are talking about people not scooping their poop, the first thing I always do is just approach them and ask them to clean it up. So far they always have. I always use a line like "look, my kids play around here". As for stalking, if anyone ever does not clean it up I will without hesitation follow them home to find out where they live, then report them. So far have not had to do this.

Another approach might be to take a picture of them - I used that one with a scam artist begging for money saying he was a victim of the Somerset fire. I then sent the photo to police with an explanation of the situation. They said he was known to them. But I took the photo from afar with zoom so he would not see me doing so (my young son was with me, otherwise I would not have cared too much)

If you don't want to confront your non-poop-scoopers and you live in Hintonburg, I'd be happy to come by and talk to your miscreants. Miss Vicky has my email address - get it from her and send me an email with coordinates.

The Webgeek Jan 6, 2008 07:53 AM said:

As a dog owner, I must admit that non-poop scoopers are a bane. They make the rest of us look bad. Miss Vicky has actually gone over and given them a Scoopie.

Miss Vicky Jan 6, 2008 08:06 AM said:

I must admit I kind of sympathize with the folks who use Hintonburg Park to exercise their dogs (not the ones who don't scoop, of course). There are very few spaces in the 'burg where dogs are welcome. The field at Tom Brown arena is the only one that I know of. There is also nearby Fairmont Park and Reid park in the Civic Hospital area. But if your pooch is small or elderly or you don't live in the neighbouring Hintonburg streets, it's not always possible to walk that far (my 16 year old mini schnauzer eventually found it too much to handle). I'd like to see Hintonburg Park open for dogs at designated hours, much like Jack Purcell in Centretown and some of the parks in the Glebe, and maybe a fence erected around the play structures to keep the spaces separate.

amckay Jan 6, 2008 10:57 AM said:

I don't mind people using non-designated parks either, as long as they are scooping.

Richgold Jan 7, 2008 09:48 AM said:

I mind. Excrement (of either sort) really has no boundaries, and residue tends to stay on the ground and then contaminate clothes. And kids (let alone adults) aren't the best hand washers. Think about that the next time you pick up a soccer ball that's been kicked around.

I also mind been approached and sniffed by overly social dogs, particularly when they're _not_ on leash, and tend to not believe people when they say "my dog is friendly". (I've been bitten twice by "friendly" dogs, and have been knocked about/down by others. If I initiate the contact, I will take responsibility for what might come about. Walking through a public area where dogs are not to be off leash or not be present, should allow me some sense of security.)

In the park I have major issue with (Hintonburg Park - the one behind the community centre), people tend to exercise their dogs off leash, frequently when children are around.

On several occasions dogs have come up to me, when I've had my children under control, and have taken to giving them and me the once over. (Even happy, wagging tales can hurt.) Several times, which have been reported, I've had children try to climb up me to get away from said dogs because they got rushed by one or more dogs. (At three feet high, seeing eye to eye with something twice your size is apparently intimidating.)

Back to the general bylaw issue - yesterday, while walking home, my huz and I saw a car parked on the wrong side of the road, in front of signs that identified it as a no parking/tow away zone. When I asked the huz if we should call it in, he said "Why bother. They won't come anyway." The lack of perceived reaction to the issue will result in lower vigilance.

The idling bylaw is just another looks good on the books governance. Why would any one think it's anything more then fumes?

liss76 Jan 7, 2008 10:35 AM said:

I will disagree with amckay and say that I do mind. Our oldest was terrified of dogs for a number of years and people disobeying the "no dogs" rule would turn an otherwise fun outing into something really unfun rather quickly.

Flanders Jan 7, 2008 04:46 PM said:

I'm surprised nobody has said anything about exception i) - the temperature exception - Ottawa must be between those temperatures about 80% of the time...

amckay Jan 7, 2008 08:43 PM said:

Good points both Richgold and liss76 - though w.r.t. germs I think that viewing too many purell ads have turned people a bit germ-crazed these days. Note that exposure to germs builds the immune system. Note that overuse of anti-bacterial products is linked to our athsma epidemic as well as the development of superbugs like C-difficile.

Washing our hands is a good thing. Washing them obsessively is precisely the opposite.

If someone is afraid to pick up a soccer ball that's been kicked around, perhaps they should lock themself in a plastic bubble at home. No, I don't mean that as hyperbole - I'm serious. I read recently that of the millions of germs out there, only a few dozen of them are actually harmful to people. Birds, squirrels, groundhogs and other animals poop in the non-designated parks and nobody cleans up after them.

amckay Jan 7, 2008 10:18 PM said:

p.s. Not only are only a very tiny fraction of germs harmful to us, there are actually a good number (of germs and other organisms) which live on us symbiotically and are quite beneficial to us. They clean us, and even fight off the bad germs. When we wash obsessively (especially with antibacterial products) we kill our symbiotic organisms, too. This is not good.

w.r.t. being afraid of dogs in non-designated parks : my recommendation would be as follows. If a dog comes up to you all-friendly-like, begin to pat it and in the process, remove it's collar (with tags) and take it to bylaw to turn it in. Tell them where and why you removed it. That should be proof enough to get the owner into the appropriate level of trouble. That's what I'd do if I felt threatened that way and bylaw were not acting as I felt they should. If you somehow end up getting into trouble for it, take it to the media and your councilor along with evidence of how many times you've called bylaw about the situation (EDIT : hint: email them, don't call them).

[Edited By amckay Jan 08, 2008 05:31 AM]

Richgold Jan 8, 2008 10:35 AM said:

About the squirrel shit issue - right - I can handle a little bit of squirrel or bird shit, because it's not going to manifest itself in the same was as the piles of dog feces you get anywhere dogs are exercised, just like I choose not to play in the cat's litter box. (Take a walk down Wellington today - between Merton and Rosemont. Pretty gross.)

The likelihood I'm going to slip a collar off a dog is nil. People have a "you touch my dog" issue of their own. To take off the "evidence" (for dogs that usually don't have tags anyway) isn't helpful and is really spoiling for a physical attack.

Which takes me back to the parking issue - in our neighborhood, a former neighbor got fed up with calling by-law and getting no response. He ended up blocking a car that was parked in HIS driveway, to make the point that it was HIS driveway, not a public space. The driver didn't give a rat's end and gave him lip back. To sum up a longer story shortly, police were called. It wasn't a good thing.

If bylaw can't/won't do their jobs, or even give the appearance that this level of vigilance is present, why bother to have the rule?

If people really don't care, and/or are just going to break the rule that's not enforced, again, what's the point. It becomes an issue of optics. It just looks good.

Miss Vicky Jan 8, 2008 11:50 AM said:

kinda like having a stated commitment to smart, sustainable growth and continuing to build suburb after suburb

JMG Jan 8, 2008 01:53 PM said:

I had my own so called brush with the law.

My street had a parking battle with a business around the corner.

For residents like myself, it was more than just about the street jammed with parked cars; it was also the blocked driveways, cars turning into the driveways and parking at 5:30 in the morning, idling vehicles, parked cars in the no parking zone, and people sitting in cars in front of our homes.

It was always the customers from the business around the corner.

I was a good citizen. I called bylaw and including the police, emailed and spoke to the elected councilor and city officials, signed a petition, wrote a letter to the editor, and had an insult or two from someone ticketed.

I finally had enough and decided to do something. I printed a flyer (Our street is not ________'s parking lot.) and I put it on windshields of the parked cars. I did this for two or three weeks.

Two police officers showed up at my door. I got a warning from them: next flyer I put on a car, I'd be charged with vandalism and mischief.

[Edited By JMG Jan 08, 2008 02:00 PM]

amckay Jan 8, 2008 02:04 PM said:

Wow! I'd have taken that one to my councilor and the media, JMG.

amckay Jan 8, 2008 02:20 PM said:

BTW, I will also point out that there is a degree of "be careful what you wish for because you just may get it" here.

We chose to live in an urban area. Assumedly that means we like the things that come with that choice. But you have to take the bad with the good. If you choose to live in the midst of businesses because you like being within walking distance to them, you have to expect to live with more traffic from people who frequent and support those businesses. Now, I don't know how far around the corner you are, but I'll give you an example of us.

We live literally a stone's throw from the Parkdale Market. Our street is used heavily by people visiting the Market, and yes, this even means it gets used by idiots who e.g. park on my side of the street which is a no parking zone.

We chose the Market for it's upsides. For years I used to rail on about the idiots, then one day I realised that I was no different than the people back in the Annapolis Valley that I used to complain about. The city slickers who had some romantic idea about country living so moved to the country. Only to end up at every town meeting complaining about farmers running their machinery at ungawdly hours, and the smell of pig shit in the air when they spread manure.

I still call in the folks parking on the wrong side of the street, but most of the rest of it is water off a duck's back now. I chose to live here.

Richgold Jan 8, 2008 02:51 PM said:

That's right AMCA, I _chose_ to live here. I didn't choose to fight to get access to my own driveway by a string of arrogant customers who don't care about the concept of respect.

It's like dealing with a bunch of freaking toddlers. "What's mine is mine. What's yours is mine."

amckay Jan 8, 2008 04:54 PM said:

On the contrary, you did choose that. What you apparently did not do was your homework before moving there. Just offering another perspective ...

Miss Vicky Jan 8, 2008 07:29 PM said:

ok, let's refrain from the personal attacks, hmmmm? Just offering another perspective.

amckay Jan 8, 2008 08:08 PM said:

Sorry, will try to be more careful with wording. We didn't do all our homework either on many fronts, but you live, you learn. We have tonnes of questions to ask next time around ...

My point remains - if one moves into a dense urban neighbourhood (like we did) in part because one wants to be able to walk to shops, one has to realise that those shops need customers to be able to stay in business. Many businesses are so specialised that they need a lot more business than the locals can provide, so obviously there is going to be a lot of car traffic. That's part of the homework one has to do - where is the house; what is in the immediate vicinity; who are their customers; will that affect me? etc, etc. We did none of that. We saw a cute house and we bought it.

Yes, to some degree we can help shape the neighbourhood. But to some degree we also have to accept the nature of what we got ourselves into - whether or not we realised it at the time.

It certainly does not help of course when the city does asinine things like "money in lieu of parking" - which puts cash in their pockets and leaves locals to deal with the fallout. And it also does not help that the nature of our system pretty-much top-to-bottom will almost always favour a business to an individual. So when push comes to shove even if people are breaking bylaws, the city (province, feds as the case may be) will turn a blind eye if it's "good for business".

[Edited By amckay Jan 08, 2008 08:10 PM]

Richgold Jan 8, 2008 11:42 PM said:

amckay the issue here is by law infractions and the city staff's unwillingness to attend to something when there is a repeated infraction in place.

That my home is situated near two day care centres and that the customers (parents in this case) are choosing to FLAGRANTLY disregard the day care centre's policies regarding parking, in addition to by laws, and that neither (the centre's policies or bylaws) are enforced IS the problem.

It's not a particularly good civic role model to follow. Kind of like a some one saying "do as I say, don't do as I do".

As Miss Vicky stated in the beginning for this entry: As with any by-law, the devil is in the details... and the enforcement. Enforcement is the issue being debated. Or, actually, the perceived lack there of.

amckay Jan 9, 2008 08:16 AM said:

Yes, you are completely right that bylaws should be enforced otherwise they are pointless. Some homework might have shown that there is a history of non-enforcement in the area, and that would ideally be something someone weighs when buying a house. But hindsight is always 20/20 :-/

Miss Vicky Jan 9, 2008 09:12 AM said:

Somehow I suspect Hintonburg is not alone it its non-enforcement problem. We are only getting somewhere with problem properties because of years of perseverance by community members, for example. I don't think this has anything to do with "homework"; rater everything to do with the selfishness of many drivers and the understaffing of bylaw enforcement.

JMG Jan 9, 2008 11:47 AM said:

Take me for instance: when I bought literally steps from one of Ottawa's busiest commercial strips, I had already lived in a city, Montreal, much bigger than Ottawa and on a street busier and nosier than the present one. I had busses running at all hours, just up the street a fire house and Metro station, a street with more cars than parking spots. I knew what city living was, I had done my homework. I am at home in cities like New York, Paris, Los Angeles, and Toronto. Give me the big city any day. What drew me to this urban neighborhood, what was then called Hampton Park before it became Wellington Village, were the very urban elements that I like about living in a city, and it's also what keeps me here. Of course, city living has its downsides, the noise, the traffic, but then that's part of life in the city or else you aren't made for the city. Now wherever you live, that goes for living in the big city or small town, in the suburbs or out in the woods, someone blocks your driveway or makes late night noise or dumps garbage illegally what you should be able to count on or at least expect is that when you call bylaw to report something an officer does show up, the most you as a resident can ask. It's the folks at city hall that need to do their homework.

pamused Jan 9, 2008 06:20 PM said:

i counted 12 gatineau municipal snow removal trucks idling LOUDLY on the spokes of my intersection at 2 am the other night. when i phoned 3-1-1 and suggested this was a shocking infraction of both idling and noise bylaws and they perhaps they could await their 'go' on a non-residential street, they drove away within minutes. though not before the phone answerer reminded me how hard-working those 'guys' are. ours is superb snow removal service, to be sure, said i. but c'mon. it'll take consistent pressure to ensure enforcement of such bylaws - EVEN on the City's own.

amckay Jan 9, 2008 06:40 PM said:

Wow, that's impressive pamused! Note that the Ottawa bylaw would probably not even apply to them given the above quotes. Not sure if they have similar exceptions in Gatineau. It would be especially impressive if they did! But even not, it sure is good service.

JMG Jan 10, 2008 09:43 AM said:

In December when we received one of the heavy snowfalls the folks at the corner used car dealership cleared their lot and dumped several feet of the snow on the sidewalk and the street.

Let's count "perseverance" or "consistent pressure" by residents--not one or two but at least half a dozen of us!--in numbers: over the course of a week, 8 phone calls to our elected councilor, 11 phone calls to bylaw, 1 phone call to police, 9 emails that included photos of the dumped snow, and 1 confrontation with used car lot owner. (Oh and yeah, when the good folks at the used car lot were dumping the snow, going on for an hour and half, bylaw were immediately called but never showed.)

It wasn't until a week later that the city sent a plow to clear the sidewalk.

[Edited By JMG Jan 10, 2008 09:48 AM]

Richgold Jan 11, 2008 09:36 AM said:

Hey amckay! I just got off the phone with an officer from bylaw. Only 14 calls in before I get any response!

Apparently he was more concerned in making me aware that they were going to do nothing about my complaint today because it's too cold and cars could idle. I took the opportunity to say that I understood the extent of the bylaw and that if they couldn't enforce that bylaw, surely they could send some one to deal with the three cars parked on the wrong side of the road. He was well versed in the "broken record technique" showing little interest in attending to parking issues and kept saying they were not going to enforce the idling bylaw.

So much for rules or regulations eh? Sometimes I wonder why I bother to teach my children about civic responsibility.

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