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Transit Fare hike? Act now!

Tue Sep 13, 2005 Miss Vicky 

City Council meets tomorrow. On the agenda is a proposal to hike transit fares in January. Transit increases, when approved as part of the city's budget, normally take place in July. This proposal is an end-run around process, since it fast-tracks one particularly contentious aspect of city budgeting, thereby avoiding the rather unsavory prospect of public consultation.

Ottawa's transit riders are already being gouged - way more than riders in other cities. Right now we're paying $2.75 to ride. Granted, you can save some money by buying tickets or passes, but that's not really the point. Most cities have ticket or pass systems that allow frequent riders to save money. Check out these comparisons of cash fares:

Toronto fares: $2.50
Vancouver: $2.25 (although you pay more if you live in one of the surrounding suburbs)
Calgary: $2.00
Montreal: $2.50
Halifax: $2.00

Regina, Winnipeg, Moncton, St. John's and Fredericton all charge less than two bucks.

The city's proposal uses rising fuel prices to justify the fare increase. Yep, gas prices are nuts and it takes a big bite out of the city's budget. They're projecting a deficit for this year and next year's budget is already gearing up to become a battle. Plus our transit system needs major cash for infrastructure if we're going to build it into the kind of system that will get people out of their cars.

But you don't get people out of their cars and on to buses or trains by making it more expensive to ride. And people who can't afford other modes of transportation have no choice, so this hike is basically nothing but a cash grab directly out of the pockets of the city's most disadvantaged and its working families.

Folks are just shaking the summer vacation fog out of their heads, so it's likely many are not paying attention to the city council agenda right now. Nor is there a lot of time to respond. So call your councillor now and let them know you feel about higher OC Transpo fares. Or show up at the meeting - it starts at 1pm tomorrow in council chambers at City Hall.

Here's our councillor's info, for us Kitchissippi folks:
Councillor Shawn Little
Ward 15 - Kitchissippi
580-2485
Shawn.Little@ottawa.ca

Some people were moved to reply

amckay Sep 13, 2005 02:17 PM said:

Hmmm, this one is really a tough call. I like a pay-per-use system, and the fact is that the ratio used to be user pays 50% of the fare and the city pays the other 50%. The portion that the user actually pays has gone down to 45% and is expected to go even lower without a fare hike.

I am also a big fan of no hidden costs in anything, ever. And subsidizing transit just makes for huge hidden costs which distort everyone's view of the transit system. Some of our biggest environmental problems have as part of their root cause the fact that we are not taking into account the full cost of things. Hiding costs just leads to extremely skewed views of things, and that leads to huge problems.

You are right this may be difficult for poor people, but it's still going to be a lot cheaper than a car. And why should I be expected to pay for their bus fare? Remember, there is no "the City" paying for this : it's you and me. Another hidden that seriously distorts views. I don't mind paying for the 50/50 split, mind you. But please let's keep it at 50/50. That's all they are trying to do.

I think I'll send my email of support to Sean Little right now! Wow, never thought I'd hear myself saying that!

The Webgeek Sep 13, 2005 02:27 PM said:

And why should I be expected to pay for their bus fare?

You're not paying their fare. You're insuring that proper Mass transit exists for your community. Their taxes also subsides the bus system. So, in a way, they pay twice. And for those that live on or nearthe poverty line & can't afford a car, the double hit is harder on them then on you.

accidental altruist Sep 13, 2005 02:30 PM said:

Pay-per-use?

Oh no. Not that argument. So if you don't have kids you wouldn't support education? I don't own a car - never have - should I whine about my tax dollars going towards roads and snow removal?

Folks using their cars to commute on a daily basis should be paying through the nose for that privilege – because it IS a privilege. Why not levy a pay-per-use fee on each single passenger vehicle entering or leaving the downtown core during rush hour?





Flanders Sep 13, 2005 03:03 PM said:

To amplify the Webgeek's point, the presence of a decent transit network has payoffs to non-users, including better air quality, less traffic, etc. etc...

It's as bad as the argument you'll hear against property taxes going to pay for education: "My family has no students so why should my tax dollars go..." The answer to that is, of course, that everybody (and I mean *everybody*) benefits from a well-educated public.

What's the most galling here? The fact that you pay less to ride in TO, Vancouver, Montreal, and Calgary, and those cities have the Subway, Skytrain, Metro, and C-Train. We have, um, er, oh yeah, the Transitway...

amckay Sep 13, 2005 03:54 PM said:

Folks using their cars to commute on a daily basis should be paying through the nose for that privilege – because it IS a privilege. Why not levy a pay-per-use fee on each single passenger vehicle entering or leaving the downtown core during rush hour?

Yes, they should be paying a lot more. We should all be paying a lot more than $1/litre for gasoline, and this money should be used for roads, etc.

And FWIW I've slowly moving to public transit - now commuting 3 days a week - and I fully support raising fairs to keep a 50/50 split. Though I can see the point that everyone benefits, and do agree that for things that really and clearly benefit all it makes sense for all to pay. I shall have to give it some more thought ...

Western Boy Sep 13, 2005 03:57 PM said:

FYI
Transit fares in Regina are $2.00 as well.

The Webgeek Sep 13, 2005 04:11 PM said:

Here's an interesting idea...

An in-city parking tariff (maybe on monthly parking passes) that to go towards public transit... If you don't want to pay the extra cost of parking then use public transortation. The increased ridership will also cause a boost in money towards busses.

eh? eh?

Genius I tell ya.

It might make future HPVOoO parking lot parties prohibitively expensive though ;-)

The Webgeek Sep 13, 2005 04:24 PM said:

We have, um, er, oh yeah, the Transitway...

Actually, I think the transitway is a pretty impressive idea. By using roadways instead of rails, we can use the same vehicles for both transitway and regular street use. Snow removal vehicles remain the same too. I don't what the maintenance and replacement issues are for road vs rail, or bus vs train, but I'm pretty sure trains cost more than busses. It can be used by any other vehicles, including express busses, para-transpo & emergency vehicles too, as need be.

It's essentially a subway system with loads more flexibility.

amckay Sep 13, 2005 04:37 PM said:

The transitway is a good idea except in places where there is none. That's the problem. You can travel really quickly for short bursts, but some of the key areas have no coverage : west end, and downtown. If they could put a transitway through downtown and further west, I'd be very happy.

In germany they used light rapid transit. So instead of subways they basically had streetcars that could be used on the streets of course, but there were also subway-like tunnels that the streetcars could disappear into to travel through downtown etc. Another good idea.

DEADwrong Sep 13, 2005 04:57 PM said:

" a decent transit network has payoffs to non-users, including better air quality" I really wonder about that, considering how much I inhaled fumes as a bike rider for 17 years summer and winter in Ottawa Center. And there would be more buses if it worked.

The fare is a killer though, and I was always floored, as a bike rider, when I had to take a bus.

As much as I get AMckay's point on pay per use, I really think a lot more people would use buses if the fare were much closer to free, if not free.

Before getting a bike I used to walk five miles a day to feed my dying mother once a day, and I recall a beggar wanting me to give him bus fare to go a shorter distance than I was walking for lack of money to ride. Ah? Right!

Transit would sure get used if it were free or near free. Even $2 a ride is a heavy hit on many.

And rail, or Trolly buses seem a real problem - especially trollies. A fire on their route kills them.

accidental altruist Sep 14, 2005 08:51 AM said:

sure it's more glamourous to have a subway or light rail system to take care of the longer hauls. & the o train carries passengers from Bayview to South Keys faster than anything else on wheels. but no matter how much you expand the o train's servicing, busses will always be needed to get people from their homes to the transitway and light rail stations.

and whether you want to believe it or not, Ottawa has one of the better bus transit systems for a city of this size and density. consider the number of citizens who live outside the greenbelt and the challenges involved in servicing folks waaaaaay out in the far flung reaches of Kanata, Orleans and Barrhaven.

many express routes coming in from the burbs are able to get you downtown faster than a car.

try taking the bus in Calgary, Halifax or Vancouver. the service may be cheaper, but isn't nearly as efficient.

.

amckay Sep 14, 2005 08:59 AM said:

many express routes coming in from the burbs are able to get you downtown faster than a car.

My door-to-desk commute from the Parkdale Market to Nortel is 15 minutes by car if I take the highway, 25 if I take the scenic route along Wellington-Richmond-Carling (which I normally would do), and 45 minutes by bus. And that's when like this morning I get to Tunney's and the 182 arrives immediately or when other transfers are dead-on.

If we had a transitway from Lincoln Fields westward I'm sure it would save 10 if not 15 minutes off that.

The Webgeek Sep 14, 2005 09:59 AM said:

AMKAY,
you're going against normal traffic though. Coming from Kanata to Downtown it s a 45 minute drive no mater how you slice it.

Flanders Sep 14, 2005 10:11 AM said:

DEADwrong - I'd rather have 1 bus belching fumes and carrying 30+ passengers than the exhaust of 20-30 cars...

amckay Sep 14, 2005 10:33 AM said:

I know traffic is a lot worse in the other direction, which is part of the reason I chose to live where I do. My point is, however, that if you want to get people onto busses you cannot narrow your focus onto just those who commute from the outskirts to downtown. While obviously not as many, there are still lots of people who commute the other way. You have to try to make commuting efficient in any direction, and having a Transitway cover that distance would go a long way to accomplishing that.

The Webgeek Sep 14, 2005 12:11 PM said:

You have to try to make commuting efficient in any direction

Yaa, but if the commute is 45 minutes in either direction, then it *is* equally efficient. It's just that cars are faster against traffic than with. You can't blame busses for that.

Either way, we had the efficiency debate already.

Miss Vicky Sep 14, 2005 02:22 PM said:

I'm with amckay on the screwy approach OC Transpo takes to commuting... but as Wegeek pointed out, we have already discussed this at length

Sea Salt & Malt Vinegar Sep 14, 2005 04:09 PM said:

My first reaction was to coin a "Bus Fair" campaign.

But I think some bits of the above discussion point to a big political problem for transit funding - buses are seen by many non-riders as vehicles for people who don't have cars. So when it comes to "subsidizing" fares, people think of it as a social service rather than as transportation infrastructure.

(I don't think people view subways and light rail this way.)

So the argument shouldn't be about bus riders having lower income and fare hikes being unfair.

It should be about Ottawa competing with other large urban centres to attract businesses, creative people, blah blah blah. It should be about taking strain off our roads, about how Ottawa has a rediculous level of smog (look outside right now) for a non-industrial city.

What a silly fantasy it was to think the City actually stood behind the laudable principles of its 20/20 plan. When the dollars hit the pavement, the planning and principles hit the road.

amckay Sep 14, 2005 04:21 PM said:

(I don't think people view subways and light rail this way.)

I would be surprised if they viewed them any differently. I sure do not.

DEADwrong Sep 14, 2005 07:52 PM said:

Flanders is right about 1 belching bus is better than 30 cars - no contest.

But I see public transport as important in its ability to move the majority of workers to their work and the following customers of the busineses to where they can buy or deal in what business they have to transact. It seems to me that dual reality is often missed. So the system should be at max operating efficiency all day - not just rush hours. No customers no business.

accidental altruist Sep 14, 2005 07:58 PM said:

(I don't think people view subways and light rail this way.)

I would be surprised if they viewed them any differently. I sure do not.



you've never heard OC Transpo referred to as a "loser cruiser"? maybe you didn't grow up here.

Sea Salt & Malt Vinegar is right - there IS a differing view-point. there are people who have taken the O Train that maintain they'd "never take the bus". i've got a sneaking suspicion that many "non-bus people" and even some "bus folk" see buses as the modern 3rd class ticket. the comments and sniffs i've heard about OC Transpo and other city's public bus systems over the years has led me to believe that many view buses this way:

"They are for people who can't afford a car, or students, or mothers with strollers taking too long to get on and off the bus expecting the driver to get up and help - making ME even later for work. and then they stop at every stop - why does MY bus route have to be such a milk run? i waited long enough for the bus and now i have to spend HOW long riding it? how many more riders are we supposed to cram onto this bus? this is undignified & unsanitary. and eeeewww.. .. the germs, especially in the winter. i'm afraid to grab onto any pole or handle for fear that someone's flu bugs got all over it. i can't stomach holding a grab rail even when the bus jerks to a stop. and why does the bus have to stop and start so abruptly? i feel like i'm going to fling off my seat - or worse - brush up against this unsavoury character sitting beside me! just stare straight ahead... don't make eye contact.... *phew*! they're getting off. now i'd better put my stuff beside me on this seat so no other weirdos sit beside me."

(i had fun writing that. been inspired by decades of taking the bus)

:-D

amckay Sep 14, 2005 08:11 PM said:

You are talking 2 different things, altruist.

Yes, even I am more inclined to ride a train than a bus. But that wasn't the question. The point that Sea Salt was trying to make was that busses are viewed as transport for people without cars, and trains are viewed as vital infrastructure. I disagree with that view. I am more inclined to use a train because they generally get from point A to point B much more quickly because they have a dedicated route. Not because of some supposed stigma. Nothing more, nothing less.

In the 10 years I've lived in Ottawa, the first time I heard "loser cruiser" was on this website, relatively recently. And then only in reference to the #2 line.

accidental altruist Sep 14, 2005 09:10 PM said:

nope. i don't think i'm talking 2 different things. i'm only pointing to the root cause of the generally perceived difference between the 2 different modes of transport. Sea Salt & Malt Vinegar was talkin', "transit funding", "'subsidizing' fares", and viewing the bus as a "social service". i decided to delve into the reasons for this.

some people are crying for an expansion of the O Train simply because they're more comfortable with riding the train. course, you need logical reasoning to argue your point. "Just start talking 'infrastructure' and we'll get our shiny new train." ;-) politicos are people too and they're susceptible to the same seduction. who didn't want a toy train growing up?

luxurious to think we could all get from A to B by train, but you simply can't have the train without buses - it's not physically feasible. trains are for long, direct hauls between transit stations.the buses take passengers through the tangle of urban sprawl to the myriad of destinations they all need to go to. i think it's the same as the "hub and spoke" system that miss vicky blogged about months ago. a "dedicated route" can't service people door to door. unless of course, we tear up all the streets and lay people movers, monorails, moving sidewalks and trains in their place. ... gee... that would be fun! it'd be like Epcot Centre!

the reason you've not heard "loser cruiser" in your ten years here is because adult folks don't generally use the term in polite conversation. those of us who grew up here heard the phrase oft-uttered. then we grew up or simply became aware of the snobbish classism that inspired it's coining. here on this website we can get a wee bit carried away because there's a few of us Ottawa lifers here. personally, i use the shocking terminology with a tinge of ironic nostalgia.

only one week till Car Free Day!

The Webgeek Sep 15, 2005 10:08 AM said:

people movers, monorails, moving sidewalks and trains in their place. ... gee... that would be fun! it'd be like Epcot Centre!

Throw in some silver jumpsuits and floaty ball-shaped killer robots and it'd be just like 70's sci-fi.

Oh, but make sure everything is shaped like a hexagon too,; because 70's sci-fi was all about hexagons.

Sea Salt & Malt Vinegar Sep 15, 2005 10:49 AM said:

New Bus Fare for OC Transpo:



New vehicles for OC Transpo




accidental altruist Sep 15, 2005 11:18 AM said:

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!


you two slay me! loooooove the hexagons. :-D

Flanders Sep 15, 2005 01:35 PM said:

I was the one who used the term "loser cruiser" here first, and yes it was in reference to the #2 - and it was meant to be ironic, given that I use that route a fair bit...anyway, I heard it here at work (the Bank of Canada) from a guy who grew up in Vancouver...

But more importantly, I think it should be known that at least two of the Bank's 6-person Governing Council commutes by bus, while another walks (betcha you'd never see Greenspan on the bus), and several of the senior advisers to the Governor commute by bus as well (as do lowly minions like myself).

Miss Vicky Sep 15, 2005 01:38 PM said:

BTW the fare hike passed yesterday. So get ready to fork over more cash in January.

The Webgeek Sep 15, 2005 01:41 PM said:

Hey Flanders. Eons ago I dated the daughter of a 4 star general. He was something like the 5th or 6th most powerful soldier in the military at the time (he's higher up now, I think). I was surprised to find out he'd commute in on the bus too.

I think you just found a brilliant ad campaign for OC Transpo.

The "Guess who rides the bus" campaign.

accidental altruist Sep 15, 2005 03:16 PM said:

OMIGOD!!! webgeek! that's a GREAT ideeeeeer!

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