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No means...

Fri Jan 9, 2009 Miss Vicky 

...get back to the table and negotiate!

So the ATU has rejected the city's final offer by a margin of three to one (nice try by Mayor Larry to fudge the numbers on the radio this morning, counting those absent as no votes.... sorry, Mr Mayor but no matter which way you count it, a strong majority of members said no.) Now it's time for the city to do what it should have been doing since this strike began: sitting down at the table and negotiating in good faith. Time to let go of the delusion that you can "hold firm" to a position that requires the workers to give up the rights they have already negotiated.

But what incensed me the most about Larry's statement was the news that council won't be meeting until Wednesday to discuss what to do next. Wednesday! Almost a full week!

I listened to Council's rhetoric after their meeting on Tuesday and wondered if their Plan B was really just allowing cars on the transitway and giving taxi chits to vulnerable Ottawans. I figured they had discussed their response to a rejection in the in camera session but were keeping mum about it in public for strategic reasons, until after the vote. I guess I overestimated them. Won't be doing that again!

Can there really be a whole council full of people who don't understand that collective bargaining means you, um, bargain? Give-and-take? Find an acceptable compromise? Do they really intend to continue to hold the city hostage over the scheduling issue? The union was willing to send it to arbitration or conduct a separate round of talks focusing on that issue alone, agreeing on everything else and ending the strike in the meantime. But oh no, Mayor Larry and his council wanted the members to have their say. Well, they've had their say. And they've said no. So let's shelve the egos and do some real negotiating, shall we?

And as for the union, Miss Vicky doesn't want to leave them out. They need to start communicating their message more effectively to the public. If Andre Cornellier isn't a good spokesman (and he's not), then find someone who can do the job, give them a title and the authority to speak and get them out in front of the cameras and on the airwaves. It's not a good idea to refuse media requests when you're in strike. The scheduling issue is complicated and the union needs to explain to the public why this is so important to their members.

Some people were moved to reply

david Jan 9, 2009 03:29 PM said:

With their public bravado and threats, Cornellier and O'Brien have pushed each-other into positions from which neither can back down without a huge public loss of face.

Rule #1 of negotiating: always leave your opponent a way out with his/her dignity intact.

[Edited By david Jan 09, 2009 03:48 PM]

Miss Vicky Jan 9, 2009 04:08 PM said:

I don't know, David - the ATU did accept the mediator's offer. That was a way out that would have allowed the city to compromise with dignity. They also have made it pretty clear that the city is welcome to take the $2500 bonus off the table in exchange for the scheduling. What offers and compromises has the city made? None since this strike has began - they went running to the Feds rather than sitting at the table. I'm not saying the union's rhetoric has been productive - but when you actually look at what has happened over the last month, I think there were a couple of moments where this could have ended with both sides retaining their dignity. But the city wasn't interested.

david Jan 9, 2009 04:46 PM said:

Good points, Vicky, but if I'm remembering correctly, even before O'Brien was personally involved, Cornellier claimed (yelled, in fact) that the city's scheduling proposal was "abolishing seniority", a statement that's the union equivalent of taking a match into a gunpowder magazine.

There may be a lot wrong with the city's scheduling proposal, but it still preserves absolute precedence by seniority. A gross distortion like that probably sewed the first seeds of doubt in the city's mind that they could actually negotiate with the drivers through the union -- if Cornellier was lying to the drivers about that, how could they trust him to tell them the truth about anything?

After that, things went downhill fast on both sides, and the city made at least as many mistakes as the union did (in particular, letting O'Brien out of his cage to get involved personally). The city also took a hard line far too early, saying that scheduling was completely off the table.

[Edited By david Jan 09, 2009 05:30 PM]

amckay Jan 9, 2009 06:46 PM said:

Oh boy this is getting fun!

The City's "approach" seems to be good-old-fashioned put-the-screws-to-the-workers. And don't get me wrong, because I'm not necessarily opposed to that when the workers deserve it or asked for it. It seems to me that this approach does have a very high probability of success in terms of the City getting what they want, but it also has an even higher probability of poisoning the working environment, and that`s not likely a good thing.

I came out of the gates on this very much in favour of the City on all counts, but am now probably ambivalent, if slightly in favour of the union in spite of their meathead leader. The big thing for me is that I'm almost always against split shifts. It's true that the drivers have been working this way for a very long time, but the City's proposal wants to add something like another 2 hours to a "spread" that is already 13 hours long. That's pretty unreasonable in my books, and not worth me saving a few tax dollars.

But ultimately, they both seem to have painted themselves into a corner at this point, and I'm just going to have fun sitting back and watching what happens :-) I'm especially interested to see if the ol' putting-the-screws approach can really work, just out of morbid curiousity. They certainly have the right mayor in place to make it happen.

TechWood Jan 9, 2009 07:06 PM said:

I think there's something being forgotten with regards to unions and employment in general.

Once upon a time unions came about to ensure safe working conditions, human rights were upheld in the workplace, and fairness was applied across the board.

Many years ago I voted in favour of forming a union for security guards. Today, if I was working for Walmart or McDonald's or one of the many other "machine" employers, I'd likely vote in favour of a union for their employees.

However, when it comes to most unions, and most unionized workplaces, I feel they should have some rights stripped. For one, I'd take out their ability to go on strike unless there were clear violation of employment standards. If you're not getting what you want from your employer, work to rule seems like a fair way of making a point.

In my humble opinion, there are no government employees that are mistreated to the point that they should even be considering a strike. I'd even question whether they should be working to rule over scheduling issues.

Truth be known if all employees in Canada - both private and public, were unionized and playing the same games as OC Transpo employees there wouldn't be any jobs because our country would be bankrupt and we wouldn't be able to compete in a global economy.

Most of the people that the strike is hurting the most can't afford to not have public transit. Anyone making minimum wage and having to take cabs should probably be afforded some form of social assistance from the province seeing as the fares for some could likely add up to what they'd make working a shift. What about the people holding two or more part time jobs just to make ends meet.

I own a car. I live outside of the city. Why am I so bitter about this strike that doesn't really affect me? As a small business owner, my partner and I combined make far less than even the minimum salary of a bus driver. Both of us work a 50+ hour week, neither have any health benefits and we haven't taken any vacation time other than 3 days extra days off outside of Xmas for the last 4 years. This strike doesn't affect us directly, however we know other small businesses that won't make it through this winter as a result. Their staff will be unemployed, the owners will have to sell off personal assets just to close the doors in a fair and equitable manner. Nobody is going to win.

So anyone that is in a union, please remember what you have and stop focusing on what you don't have.

If you're the city - privatize, privatize, privatize and keep your dignity (and those of the privatized workforce) by ensuring that you instill that the employees of that privatized transit service are provided with salary's and benefits are on par with other transit workers in other areas. Or better yet, ask the province and feds to make public transit a priority everywhere in this country and ensure that it's made an essential service.

[Edited By TechWood Jan 09, 2009 07:45 PM]

amckay Jan 9, 2009 07:09 PM said:

p.s. a couple of things I forgot to mention, touching on things others mentioned

(1) w.r.t. "rights they already negotiated". These are by no means "rights", but rather "priveleges" (damn I can never spell that right). It is unrealistic of either side to assume that something won a decade ago would be written in stone. The world moves on and changes, and situations have to change too, to match the world.
(2) seniority. Where I work - at Nortel - they try their best to cut the senior-most people because that's where you save the most money. If a senior employee is not performing better than a junior and thus justifying the higher pay, they will be at greater risk of being cut. Plain and simple. This is the reality of private industry. In my view, if public-sector employees don't want to be subject to this sort of cut-throat behavior, they need to make concessions elsewhere. Referring back to my first point, seniority is by no means a right.
(3) I've always said that public sector wages should be tied to inflation (and years of service, which yes is seniority), and not subject to negotiation. This just seems to me to be so obvious it's hardly worth explaining.

knitnut Jan 10, 2009 12:35 AM said:

Excellent post Miss Vicky.

JennyC Jan 10, 2009 09:02 AM said:

Hear, hear, Miss V!!

accidental altruist Jan 10, 2009 11:30 AM said:

I attended the rally at city hall yesterday.

I grew up in Ottawa and never got a driver's license because the transit system is so good. I live downtown and share custody of my daughter who's father lives in Kanata. Yesterday I could not get my daughter back from Kanata. I tried for hours to find a ride and failed. So I called city hall to give 'em my perspective.

Then I went to the rally at city hall. I made a sign that said "Larry, can I get a lift? - a bus rider" and held it up the whole time. I had many bus drivers apologize to me for the inconvenience that the strike is causing. One bus driver even offered to drive out to Kanata to pick my daughter up! They all felt really bad that I was losing precious time with my daughter. I told them I understood that part of their fight was to protect time with their families. The initial 13.5 hour spread as well as increasing the # of split shifts is anti-family, in my opinion. I told them so.

I think that if we stripped back the rhetoric from both sides and actually had the stakeholders speaking to each other directly both would have exactly the same issue and concerns coming from both sides. The city refused to take scheduling off the table in order try to come to an agreement on everything else. Most drivers were talking about scheduling issues - not money like the media has led many to believe.

The whole "we want respect" message is meaningless unless individual drivers tell their stories of how hard it is to raise a family when someone wants to take 1.5 hours family-time out of your day for the sake of "efficiency". That may have been withdrawn, but I feel the city was wrong and being anti-family & anti-quality of life by even suggesting it.

So how do you decide that one group of citizens deserves to retain quality of life while others do not have that right?

The strike is a big pain in the ass - but its SUPPOSED to be. If more people would complain to City Hall and tell them they've got to do *something* like accept 3rd party biding arbitration we'd all be further ahead.

I have a 45 minute walk to work. Sometimes its an hour and 15 minute limp because I have fibromyalgia and a joint disorder. Sometimes I telework. Often I mooch rides. I'm coping pretty ok. And I'm no longer stressed to the max about missing family time with my own daughter. She knows that circumstances are beyond our control.

I just want to strike to end. I also would really like it if people would look beyond the news clips, rhetoric and press conferences. Talk to a bus driver with an open mind. This city's (citizens AND council AND Larry O'Brien) knee-jerk, anti-union behaviour is getting tiresome. :-S

Alayne McGregor Jan 11, 2009 12:13 AM said:

I agree with you, Vicky -- I've been saying right from the beginning that we needed continued negotiations with both sides recognizing the others' real concerns.

It's obvious that there could be better ways of organizing shifts, but to dump a new proposal on the table on NOVEMBER 25 (acc. to today's Citizen)? More than EIGHT MONTHS into negotiations? What was the city thinking?

And increasing the maximum work day from 12 to 13.5 hours? Of course that's a non-starter -- not just for family reasons, but also for health and safety. It certainly makes the city's "worries" about drivers who don't get enough sleep between and evening and morning shift sound a bit sanctimonious.

Redoing scheduling is inherently complicated and fraught: it needs to be done carefully in a non-confrontational manner that would benefit Transpo management, the city, the drivers, and the public -- not in a last-minute rush with half-baked ideas to save supposed millions.

I'm not saying the current schedules are perfect: it would be very useful for everyone AND the environment if Transpo could reduce the number of buses that it deadheads. But make these changes reasonably.

To amckay: it's "privilege", and in my opinion, that's not how one refers to clauses in an agreed-to collective agreement. As for Nortel: no wonder it's now verging on bankruptcy if that's how it treated its most experienced, consistent, and loyal employees.

TechWood Jan 11, 2009 12:06 PM said:

"And increasing the maximum work day from 12 to 13.5 hours? "

Much of the transportation industry and "driver" occupations are based around long shifts and split shifts. In example, a rural school bus driver starts their shift at 5:30am , they are in service for approximately 4 hours then sit idle for another 4-5 hours then drive for another 4. At the end of their run they return to a yard, public area or their homes. In our area a bus driver receives about $12.50/hour for the hours they are in service. (Key on / Key off). Not very much in comparison to a public transit driver. Yet a school bus drivers is required to follow many additional rules and drive under certain constraints that a public transit operated would be screaming murder over.

Long haul and short-haul truck operators also work very long shifts. I believe a limit of 12 running hours is put in place for safety. Which means they don't actually drive any more than 12 hours in a 20-hour span.

Snow removal workers would be in the same boat, but get the benefit (or a non-benefit depending how it's looked at) of only working those type of shifts during snow times.

It should also be noted that not all of the OC shifts are 13.5 hours. Based on what I've seen of the proposed schedules, it's only the odd run shifts that can extend to a _maximum_ of 13.5 hours, but most shifts aren't greater than 12.

Perhaps the city and the union should be looking at bus service entirely differently. If it's unsafe to have an older driver working a longer shift, then perhaps the older drivers should be retired earlier to ensure their safety is met. This may mean that the top end of salaries would need to be reduced by up to 20 or 30%, and a kitty set up to ensure drivers had a decent exit package.

Of the drivers I've known, several were previously truck drivers and welcomed the change in driving for a public bus company. The changes were that they had to deal with the public more and safety regarding passengers, rules for buses in a busy city vs driving a truck in mixed conditions and in many different jurisdiction. But those I knew said driving a bus was actually a great reduction in liability compared to being a truck operator going across jurisdictions, dealing with many more laws/regulations, all kinds of different cargo loads, etc.

Perhaps bus driving shouldn't be considered a life-long occupation. There are many occupations that demand a high amount of preparation/training/education before a person begins their employment and as such either require a high level of compensation during the working years or for a guarantee on stability as a whole-life career. I don't see driving a bus in the same light. Is a driver with 20 years bus driving knowledge/experience any more capable than a driver with 10 years experience?

Perhaps by lowering the maximum hourly salary and reducing the hours would allow for a larger number of staff/more employment and better service across the board. There doesn't seem to be much mention of just how many operators are in the upper range of salary (75-100k) vs those in the lower range?

One consideration is that everytime we increase salaries we unconsciously increase the cost of living. We unconsciously increase an expectation that we should have and consume more and at any point if we receive less we are being valued as less as a person. It's unfortunate that we think this way because it's leads to an entire system of people that will be unsustainable.

Our monetary system wasn't designed to be doing what it's currently doing. Every added benefit given to one comes at a cost to another - either in the form of debt or the form of being paid less than what a persons time is worth in comparison to another. It's a system that will perpetually create have's and have not's.

In an ideal system we would all be compensated based on our cost of preparation/experience and incomes would only increase to a certain point based on our production capability, then they would decline as we age. This is based on the principle that a younger person has more "needs" as they start out in life and have less as they reach/accomplish certain needs as they age.

Of course I don't think along the same lines as most people. I believe that the majority of us (north-americans in general) have a very unrealistic view of income, needs and wants, and sustainability. In order for us to all have a better life we need to curb individual "wants" and maximum salaries in order to reduce those that are in the have-not category. Services based on taxpayer funding should be setting realistic examples of what one should expect from a monetary aspect in life. My belief is that it's currently setting unrealistic examples and creating a lot of fat-cats that demand something that isn't possible without a certain portion of the population suffering the consequences.

Cheers.

accidental altruist Jan 11, 2009 05:27 PM said:

"Much of the transportation industry and "driver" occupations are based around long shifts and split shifts."

Sure, and that's an anti-family model. I'd rather live in a society moving towards something more accommodating to the demands of raising children.

"Long haul and short-haul truck operators also work very long shifts."

That doesn't make it *right* or even desirable. I'd rather have alert truckers (not relying on stimulants) on the road, thanks.

"xtend to a _maximum_ of 13.5 hours"

The current maximum is 12 hours. That's exactly what I said in my original post, actually. Some drivers with young families would be obligated to spend up to 1.5 hours LESS with their families on any given day. I think that's an anti-family labour policy.

"n an ideal system we would all be compensated based on our cost of preparation/experience and incomes would only increase to a certain point based on our production capability, then they would decline as we age. This is based on the principle that a younger person has more "needs" as they start out in life and have less as they reach/accomplish certain needs as they age."

Do you want to pay based on cost of education, actual skill or needs? Those are 3 very different things.

I work in a department of 2 people - me and a man just months away from retirement. I've been doing this job for 2 years, he's been doing it for over 20. Just because he's in his 60s does not mean his "production" is going down. His accumulated knowledge and experience which merit much respect. I can only hope to glean one tenth of his knowledge and wisdom before he leaves the workplace. I don't think I should get paid more just because I'm younger than my much more experienced/educated colleague.

TechWood Jan 11, 2009 08:10 PM said:

"Sure, and that's an anti-family model. I'd rather live in a society moving towards something more accommodating to the demands of raising children."

It's not anti-family, it's based on what the cost of providing that service is and what people are willing to pay for that service. Unless you can convince most of the population to take less in some areas and give a bit more in certain areas - you won't change this.

I believe 100% in people working less and spending more time doing things that mean more in life to them (e.g. family, friends, etc.) - unfortunately this comes at a cost. It means that the average family can't have 2 cars and live in a big house, shop at box stores everytime something new comes on the market, eat out every 2nd night, etc. I can't tell you how to fix this, but I can say that society isn't what it was 30 years ago. We didn't consume at the rate we are currently consuming. In fact, at the current rate you won't have to worry about children because there won't be a planet for them to live on. Bus drivers back then didn't have a salary that spread from 35k to 100k. We didn't have an expectation to be able to shop 7 days a week from 9am to 10pm.

Likely it would mean all of us taking a drastic hit on our desire for material goods and over-consumption. We'd choose our employment based on our priorities and in many cases, we wouldn't have double-income families so our kids could all have mobile phones and designer labels. I'm up for that, how about the rest?

"Some drivers with young families would be obligated to spend up to 1.5 hours LESS with their families on any given day. I think that's an anti-family labour policy."

Then perhaps the union should make changes and spread those shifts across all drivers so that it's not put on a specific group of drivers". Rather than give the drivers a 3-month schedule, have them rotated on a monthly basis so that it's applied fairly to all drivers. There is give and take in any job, some more than others.

I have a friend that works 7 12-hour shifts at night and then gets 4 off, he works like that for 4 weeks and then gets switched to days for the same. It's a tough way to live, but he chose that career knowing that it was shift work. Why did he leave his other job? Because this one paid more and provided other benefits.

"Do you want to pay based on cost of education, actual skill or needs? Those are 3 very different things."

I don't quite understand what your asking here. I said you pay a person based on preparation (education/achieving the right amount of experience to be productive/useful at something), you limit the maximum income once they've achieved the experience/skills with basic cost of living increases. You don't give one person a bigger raise just because they've been there 10 years vs 20 years. For example, if a bus driver with 10 years experience wasn't actually capable of doing a better job than a bus driver with 20 years experience, you would put a limit on the income of all drivers with 10+ years experience. That way you don't end up in a position where we're paying people astronomical amounts of money based on them being in the same job forever. At the same time, people would have better expectations earlier on in their career. Which brings me back to your comment about family time, a person with a young family isn't likely an older person - they are likely younger and need a higher income at that point.

Whereas an older person should have accomplished most things financially over their career and should have less income demands.

Currently just because a unionized person has been at a job longer they expect more money. I know a lot of people that have seniority and have become "fixtures" in organizations even though they posess less ability than someone with less time in. Many of these people hide behind their union feeling that as a person with seniority there position is guaranteed and so is their future income.

It all comes back to "What do we as a society believe in and want out of life?". We can't all have everything and anything we want and expect everyone else (including future generations) to pay for it. We need to be much more realistic about what is fair and equitable. If everyone walked off the job because they didn't get what they wanted we'd be in a lot of trouble as a society.

Protection and union control should be afforded to those that are in positions/places of employment that don't have what most of us would consider "fairn and equitable" standard of living.

Nobody in the public service is below what I feel that standard of living is, therefore I feel they aren't in the right to be on strike, whether or not the law say's they are. We also have laws that say employers don't have to provide a pension plan, don't have to provide health/dental benefits, and don't have to pay an employee more than minimum wage. Employers only have to provide 3 hours of employment in a shift and can pretty much make anyone part-time/full-time casual at will. These are the areas that need to improve - not public service positions. Everytime we spend more on those that already have standards far above the minimum, it comes at a cost to everyone - particularly those that are at the bottom of the scale.

Cheers.

accidental altruist Jan 11, 2009 10:30 PM said:

"I have a friend that works 7 12-hour shifts at night and then gets 4 off, he works like that for 4 weeks and then gets switched to days for the same. It's a tough way to live, but he chose that career knowing that it was shift work. Why did he leave his other job? Because this one paid more and provided other benefits."

You're friend got to choose the shift work. What's being proposed by the city of Ottawa is that folks who weren't doing shift work before will now have to do that.

"It's not anti-family, it's based on what the cost of providing that service is and what people are willing to pay for that service."

Proposing scheduling changes based on costs vs revenues is not a 'pro-family' gesture. I was a single parent for a decade. If my job went to shift work I'd have been in a terrible situation. My child would have lost out. If I took a job with a certain guarantee of shift spread, and then found out that spread could get increased by an extra 1.5 hours I'd have been in a terrible situation.

I say that during the past 32 or so days the city has not exhibited any productive leadership in face of the transit strike. I do not think that Larry O'Brien really cares about Ottawa families (transit employees and/or private citizens). I think Larry's just a 'businessman' who only values a healthy 'bottom line'.

TechWood Jan 12, 2009 12:54 PM said:

"You're friend got to choose the shift work."

Actually, in his case his shift work has been changed at least twice since he started with them. There was some consultation with staff as to who worked which shifts, however the employer didn't allow them to change the actual shifts, just who took which shift. If you've ever worked for a non-unionized employer, you'd know that generally there is no input from staff on how the schedule is set.

"Proposing scheduling changes based on costs vs revenues is not a 'pro-family' gesture."

Do you honestly believe the city (all the councillors) hav chosen to create the scheduling changes in an effort to be anti-family?

By all accounts from what I've read they did so because they will save additional funds (outside of the 3.4 million) on the purchase of extra buses and having additional drivers working shorter shifts where they pay out a lot more on salaries/benefits.

"I do not think that Larry O'Brien really cares about Ottawa families (transit employees and/or private citizens)."

As much as I'm not a fan of O'Brien himself (for other reasons far from transit related), this wasn't his decision alone. In fact, mayors have very little control over most of what the city does. Ask your councilor how he/she voted on this matter and if you feel they should be voting differently, give them a call and voice your opinion rather than singling out the mayor as the bully. As to what he cares about transit employees, I suspect he like most of the population surveyed, along with other councilors feel that the union is being the bully. What does he care about Ottawa's public transit users? They represent almost half the city's population, I'm sure he realizes this, but is standing firm with the other councilors based on both principles and what they have to work with from a financial perspective.

I'm not anti-union, but I also believe there should be a limit on what issues/matters a union is permitted to go on strike over. This isn't a bunch of walmart employees, it's a group of _very_ well paid employees with a lot of benefits that far exceed what employment standards in this province (and all others) are required to provide.
Unfortunately, I think it's actions like this by unions and their members, who have so much to be happy about in their jobs that turns employers against unions and puts fear into people considering the formation of unions in workplaces.

Nobody else has mentioned this, but I found it horrendous that the ATU brings up on their website that "Not enough was done soon enough" with regards to the employee that went on a shooting rampage at OC several years ago. The man was mentally ill, it had nothing to do with his workplace. If that is what they feel made him do what he did, then we should be seeing daily occurrences of the same event in most other workplace.

Some have also commented that "strikes are a last resort". To me they are a last resort for certain types of issues, none of those issues have in my opinion been present in at least the last 22 years of OC's history. There are many other things that a union can do to put pressure on the public and the city that wouldn't equate to them walking off the job.

Perhaps what the city should put forward is that they will review the scheduling issues over the next 3 years and when the ATU contract comes up for re-negotiation they can include any changes both sides have mutually agreed on unless they can be included prior to the renegotiation without additional cost to the city.

Cheers

accidental altruist Jan 13, 2009 11:53 AM said:

Techwood, I think I wasn't clear when I said, "You're friend got to choose the shift work." Now, I may be wrong... but I'm assuming that your friend took a job that was advertised as 'shift work'. Or, are you saying that your friend's job also morphed from 9-5 to shift-work just as is being foisted upon some bus drivers?

"Do you honestly believe the city (all the councillors) hav chosen to create the scheduling changes in an effort to be anti-family?"

No. And I don't think our then-mayor said "Whee, lets all be ableist!" when the city designed sidewalks which slope downwards at the end of every single driveway, either. But that particular design of sidewalk sucks for people who rely on mobility devices. If someone had stood up when the sidewalk decision was made and said, "Hey! These sidewalks will be practically un-useable for someone in a wheelchair", and they WENT AHEAD ANYWAYS - then they'd have *chosen* to be ableist.

There's a buncha drivers out there trying to explain how the city's proposed labour policies could hurt family life. If the mayor hears these stories and still goes ahead with his 'buck stops here' agenda... well, then he is choosing cash over children development. Then I'd say Larry's actively being anti-family.

Miss Vicky Jan 13, 2009 12:39 PM said:

"Perhaps what the city should put forward is that they will review the scheduling issues over the next 3 years and when the ATU contract comes up for re-negotiation they can include any changes both sides have mutually agreed on unless they can be included prior to the renegotiation without additional cost to the city."

That was the proposal of the federal mediator, which the union agreed to and the city rejected. The union has already said it wants to take scheduling off the table for this round and deal with it separately. Nothing precludes the two parties from meeting during the life of a contract and negotiating a mutually-acceptable resolution to concerns or issues. Nothing except bad management-union relations, that is.

accidental altruist Jan 13, 2009 03:36 PM said:

Interesting development.

(linkified by Miss Vicky)

[Edited By Miss Vicky Jan 13, 2009 04:07 PM]

accidental altruist Jan 13, 2009 04:24 PM said:

(oops)

[Edited By accidental altruist Jan 13, 2009 04:25 PM]

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